Farming time

Discussion in 'Main' started by [Hun] Lepto, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Dear Accel, I understand you wanted to help new players by making the current keyman getting changed more frequently therefore reducing farm times, but it's breaking the current teamplay aswell. Most of the times, half the team is far away from the door and also trying to farm at a better place (places where SI can be killed at a reachable place and more safely) for weapons, but now can't, because the door opens so quick without any sign before that they get overwhelmed and die while trying to make it to the door. If we don't have enough good weapons in our team, next map tank fights are really painful and unfair, we need our farming time, so we can stand a chance atleast against stronger SI and tanks later on (alot of maps mid campaign levels are really tank-favored). I and the admins (sugoi, Habashe (Neliel), Purple Sister Nep) and alot of experienced and regular players who messaged us want to suggest you to please revert back the change. Without farm time, the regular playerbase can't carry the newbie players either, new players have been accepting with farming before aswell, it wouldn't discourage new players from playing. If you don't want to, then please enlighten us, the admins, because we still don't fully understand this change, we haven't seen anything wrong with the system before.
    dude, Citrus百合 and sugoi like this.
  2. ♥pound the tuna♥

    ♥pound the tuna♥ Новичок

    here comes the annoying tuna~ on a brand new forum account~

    I am one of the ones with persistent complaints about the door. Here comes a wall of text.

    When many of the players are regulars, the farm time reduction on the door isn't usually a huge issue. However, more and more recently, we've been getting what I'll call "new regulars" that come in and spam the door. They've played in the server for weeks, I've seen them many times. All they do is log in, get a few points, and spam the door. They *specifically* come into the game to rush and spam the door. They have done this *before* the door change, and now with the door change their job is easier. They know that they shouldn't rush, they've been told many times and just "lol" at it. It's not new players I'm raising concerns about, or the people who hit the door just to see who is key-man and it turns out that it was them. That's just part of the system. People who open the door quickly are also subject to "vigilante justice" where people get angry and shoot them in the next map, or intentionally leave them to die. I try to tell people not to do it, but it's difficult. I get angry at door opening quick (most will say I complain loudly) but I don't TK, I try to do what I can or I take a break.

    There is a rule on the server, and also a setting, to prevent rushing. Anti-Rush. However, this rule I feel is rendered moot when it comes to basically making the door one-tap open. No one has time to farm, you basically have to rely on whatever SI you encounter to get to the saferoom. RNG isn't very kind sometimes. Players that try to farm get punished by being left behind and killed. We have had instances where one person reaches the door before anyone else, they tap quickly on the door and crack it, and the rest of the team dies. The environment in the server now is to rush the door and pray that you got something good. This isn't fun.

    Then, next maps start, and people complain about failing the map. They want the map skipped by attempt 2. I try to explain (nicely but sometimes I get annoyed and throw insults into the mix to be fair) that in order to NOT fail these maps, and NOT skip them, we need to actually farm for a few minutes. On [ENG] , we never really had issues with pre-finale map farm times as far as I know (there are exceptions of course). They could go for a little bit, but there was always one person touching the door so the farm ended up at maybe +5 minutes added to the map. Again, there are exceptions to this, where it has gone a little longer or it involves finales. Finale is a different issue and isn't affected by the door.

    This is all from the perspective of [ENG]. I don't play frequently in the other co-op server, but I've heard that they farm for a lot longer than we do, so maybe that's why the change was introduced. It's understandable in that case to change the door timer. However, the change has caused an entire new set of issues that I and many players feel are worse, such as the rushing and lack of teamwork (since everyone is more focused on getting quick loot so they have a chance at the next map).

    If the door change stays, maybe another edit can be added:
    >I'm not sure if it's possible, but there's a 30 second timer in the beginning of the map for saferoom door where it can't be opened. Is it a good idea to try to add that type of timer to the end door, so it at least gives the map a chance to farm and/or get the group to the door with less incident? Not a long timer (maybe keeping 30 seconds) until door cracking can begin.

    TLDR: door change causes intentional rushing and encourages people to tk eachother because theyre mad that the door opened quick. we have to change maps a lot because we dont have guns to pass the map.

    I hope some of this makes sense, I tried to keep similar points together and keep things objective. If I am wrong somewhere, please let me know.
  3. céleste

    céleste Администратор сервера Coop Участник

    I think you guys want it to be too easy. That's what fun is all about - challenge :D
    sugoi likes this.
  4. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    Tuna:There is a rule on the server, and also a setting, to prevent rushing. Anti-Rush. However, this rule I feel is rendered moot when it comes to basically making the door one-tap open.

    I mean rushing is not of a big deal clearly you have never played on rus-24 but because of the keyman change now the door is opened a bit more early which a lot of people agree with you .My suggestion for this is revert back to the old keyman before the change . For me personally it isn't a big deal because I open some bad boxes and the team is slowed down lol.

    Also another suggestion , whenever we have more than 5 people with skill>900 (only these people rush :D)then the chargers will home towards the survivor(curve while charging)
    . Or you can also increase the chances of bad boxes :p
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  5. Accelerator

    Accelerator Главный Администратор Staff Member Администратор

    Farming is the delay of the team and the gameplay. While a bunch of players are farming, those who died during the passage of the map are forced to sit in the observers and wait until the map is either passed or failed (which happens more often). Players do not yet understand the measures in farming time, therefore, in order to reduce the farming time to an acceptable amount of time, the keykeeper will remain alone until the players themselves get used to it.

    On Rus coop there is no such panic when opening the doors and if it was opened, everyone calmly enters and goes through the next card. On a ENG server, panic and discontent begins when players open the door, which is fundamentally wrong. I do not encourage farming and latency, so for now it will be as it is, until the situation approaches the one available on the Russian server. And as I said, before, when there was only a Russian server, it did not have a keyman plugin and the saferoom door was always open and the saferoom did not have time to farm.
  6. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    I could get how such thing is possible on the russian server, but it's impossible on an international server. On russian server, you can always just talk it out with people when to open, but on the international, you have a bunch of new players who refuse to even look at the chat or listen to voice chat, there's also the problem most of them are restricted because they don't even know basic english. Hell, even when we are calmly telling everyone to not open the door or atleast tell them to tell us in advance if they do, writing and saying it at the same time, some random guy always opens it without saying anything in advance and most likely just leaves next map saying "fuck u all" (this basically happened yesterday on Death Toll, couldn't even gag him). Same when someone is trying to open the door when he's not a keyman and we are telling/writing him to stop, he's just clicking it over and over until he dies because of spam. It's simply not possible to make our community as strong if we're bound by a language barrier that many new players can't even pass, on the russian server it's easier, because even those who are very newbie will understand a simple "privet" and will be more inspirated to listen (assuming most new players there are russians). Unless we ban basically everyone who doesn't know basic english and has a system that checks whether they can take attention if needed or not, the system is unintentionally griefable by players who don't know or understand it. I would be all up for the system you want and we, the admins and other nice players are trying to make it possible, but there are too many times when new players are abusing it and our progress resets to zero then the drama happens. Again, I would be already just fine if every new player had to fill out a survey to play on the server to see if they can take the minimal attention and know basic english, just really basic stuff considering it's supposed to be an english server.
  7. Accelerator

    Accelerator Главный Администратор Staff Member Администратор

    The Russian server is also played by many newbies and players from different countries. The whole difference is that on Rus Coop no one says not to open the door to anyone, but they only say what has already happened in fact, when someone has already opened it (see) :D Pulling the door no one considers it some kind of crime against the team. So should be in English. Until this happens, and as long as people continue to aggressively perceive the opening of the door to the saferoom, there will be only one keyman.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
    Iris and sugoi like this.
  8. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    We can try different solutions for some period and see if it works ;)
  9. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    Some suggestions I want to give :

    1.) The person who first touches door is never the keyman OR if he is the keyman then it would need 3 'e' presses to open.

    2.) We know that newbies cant touch door (if time played<6hrs) , we can increase that time period a bit.

    3.) keep keyman same but after the door is touched by keyman it will open after like say 5 -6seconds (not more than 10 seconds tho)
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  10. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Even we would not take it aggressively if we didn't have to accept that we are most likely gonna have to reset multiple times on later maps until RNG goes on our side and a good weapon drops or until we have good position to kill tanks (SI would still be a huge problem). A few pros can't carry the team either if they don't have weapons. And who likes losing repeatedly in the first place? We would also not take it so aggressively if we would be warned before the door is open and playing effectively wouldn't bite us in the ass (staying around the saferoom door most of the time is not an effective strategy if you want SI to spawn on a good place, for example, Death Toll chapter 1). Even a simple "door is gonna open" countdown would be perfect for us, because no matter who opens, we would have time to atleast cut the way it takes to go back in half. Any kind of delay would atleast ensure that we do not get overwhelmed so easily, because we can also expect a horde and would also have time to get the downed people up (how is it good teamwork when people open door when like 5 people are still on the ground, incapicated?). Playing efficiently shouldn't have such big drawbacks.

    Some quotes from chatlog you linked (rus server):
    -Why hit me if I don't open the door?
    -yes, we had to farm in the map before, but some noob opend the door
    -who opened that fucking door

    And plenty of "don't touch the door" comments from the second page onwards.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  11. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Even this would already perfect, most people who have played for like <15-30 hours already would most likely understand the system atleast.
  12. Accelerator

    Accelerator Главный Администратор Staff Member Администратор

    It is a hard server and this means that players cannot always pass maps with good weapons. As long as I was on the server, people, having already melee weapons and 2-3 good weapons, continue to farm and do not want to go to the saferoom. People are always sensitive to such changes, but alas, it is impossible to change the tactics of the game otherwise :)
  13. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    I know I can't do anything with people farming at same spot for 10-15 mins but whenever I am alive I usually use explosive ammo and yolo rush to help the team forward , usually end up dying and spectating until auto kill slay players :p
    And when there is just too much rush for kills and points , I open bad boxes ^^
  14. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Sadly, I have to agree that long farm time can also be abused when players are greedy and watch what they have, but not what the team has, there has been examples of that before. But even then, should the entire team be hindered by total RNG and lack of communication (most of the time)? With early door openings, half the team most likely just dies, because they can't reach the door (especially if the first who reaches the door is the keyman and he opens instantly) and then the next round, all we can do is wait for an actual gun, because almost all of us has only a pistol. Are we supposed to kill a tank or red SI with pistols now that doesn't even take 0.001% of its health? Either a 5 seconds delay or a small increase to the chance of melee weapon drops would already be enough. Again, there would be no need for a delay if people wouldn't open doors when multiple people are still incapped or they would say it in advance or even if most SI spawns nearby saferoom doors were not complete crap, but things don't want to line up like that.
  15. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Or what you could also do as a solution aswell is hide one AWP or GL on every campaign for one of the maps. This could ensure that the team always has a GL or AWP atleast everytime. To compensate for this, good weapon drops could be slightly lowered in drop chance to avoid possibly having too many most of the times.
  16. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    Prolly not a good idea imo , but if players rush to safe room every round and you don't get to 'farm' as you say then why not make the game a bit more harder :p
  17. [Hun] Lepto

    [Hun] Lepto Пользователь Участник

    Game doesn't get harder by not having time to farm, it just gets more unfair. Atleast one AWP or GL player could significantly help the team, but not having anything is just plain unfair especially when hardbox, angrybox and bloodbox play a role. Not having anything, but pellet guns to fight back is just not working and after hardboxes, you can't really spare time to melee SI, because they're too fast and their animation is quickened up aswell (they also come hilariously fast).

    There's also an issue that multiple people reported that campaigns are now too short and they're missing the old ways. People liked staying on campaigns and not being done with them after half an hour. There were barely any cases when farm times were abused and it could easily be controlled by making a rule that says "Farming for weapons is allowed, but after the team has x amount of this and that, the keyman must open the door", this could stop the abusement and still make passage of maps not as quick. On the (ENG) server, we had a certain system and we really don't want to change it much, it has been like that for years and I don't think there were complaints like ever about it. The RUS and ENG servers are different, why would it be wrong to have a different mindset in both?
  18. sugoi

    sugoi Активный пользователь Участник

    No . It's complicated and won't be fun
    I like they way it is now (at least the way it was when 3 keypersons )